Listen Here

If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and don’t forget to rate and review on Apple or Spotify. When you rate and review the show, you help Jaime reach more people.

What happens when the leaders we trust falter? On today’s Jamie Luce Podcast, we confront the heart-wrenching reality of accountability within large ministries, especially in light of recent scandals. We explore the emotional and spiritual toll these events have on the church community and the faith of its followers. By examining organizational structures, cultural influences, and the pressures that come with celebrity status, we seek to understand how such lapses occur and what can be done to prevent them. Our conversation underscores the importance of having pure motives and hearts dedicated to serving God.

Through the metaphor of grape fermentation, we illustrate the maturation process necessary for a powerful ministry. The rush to achieve fame often yields disastrous results, as seen in the tragic downfall of young ministers who were elevated too quickly. Waiting for God’s timing and preparing oneself for leadership are essential themes we discuss, drawing from biblical examples like the story of Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai. Patience, preparation, and the fear of the Lord emerge as critical components for anyone aspiring to lead a ministry.

Finally, we highlight the profound role of Jesus Christ as our sole mediator, cautioning against the idolization of religious figures. Direct access to God is our privilege, thanks to Jesus’ sacrifice, and we must prioritize His voice over human intermediaries. Reflecting on Paul’s teachings, we encourage humility and servanthood as the true markers of greatness in God’s kingdom. Together, let’s support one another in our spiritual journeys, keeping our focus firmly on Jesus, our ultimate guide and source of strength. Join us for a heartfelt call to action and a commitment to integrity in our faith communities.

Where to dive in:

(0:00:00) – Accountability in Ministry and Culture (4 Minutes)

This chapter addresses the critical issue of accountability within large ministries and the impact of recent scandals involving prominent ministers. We explore the importance of having right motives and hearts in our service to God and the need to be vigilant and self-aware. We discuss the repercussions of these scandals on the church community and the faith of its followers. Additionally, we examine various factors that might contribute to these failures, including organizational structure, cultural influences, and the pressure to achieve celebrity status. By recognizing and learning from these events, we can strive to grow as a body of believers.

(0:04:09) – Examining Fault in Church Leadership (17 Minutes)

This chapter emphasizes the importance of stepping back to gain a broader perspective on issues within Christian ministries and leadership. We explore the emotional and spiritual toll of navigating through various ministries and the necessity of accountability among leaders. Highlighting the contrast between those who live accountable lives and those who adopt a “rock star” mentality, I argue for stricter accountability measures to prevent misconduct. We also discuss the individual responsibility of Christians to lay down their lives for Christ, drawing from biblical examples to address current challenges in church leadership. The chapter concludes with a call for a deeper understanding and action to protect the integrity of the church, stressing that ministers are responsible for their actions but also that the community has a role in holding them accountable.

(0:20:48) – The Process of Fermentation (6 Minutes)

This chapter explores the metaphor of grape fermentation to illustrate the maturation process necessary for a powerful and effective ministry. We reflect on how rushing to achieve fame can lead to superficial, sugary results that ultimately harm both ministers and their followers. Through a poignant example of a young minister’s tragic downfall, we emphasize the dangers of premature elevation in ministry. We also discuss the importance of setting limits and waiting for God’s timing, as highlighted in Exodus 19 and 20, where God instructs Moses to consecrate the people and wait for His call before approaching Mount Sinai. This narrative underscores the necessity of patience, preparation, and maturity in spiritual leadership.

(0:27:13) – The Fear of the Lord (14 Minutes)

This chapter takes us through the powerful narrative of Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai. We explore the intense experience of God’s presence marked by thunders, lightnings, and a loud trumpet blast, leading the people to tremble in fear. We examine the significance of God wanting to speak directly to the people and their choice to have Moses mediate instead, highlighting their reluctance to engage with God personally. The discussion reflects on the implications of relying on spiritual leaders to communicate God’s word and the importance of cultivating a direct relationship with God ourselves. The chapter also emphasizes the intimate and sacrificial role Moses played as a mediator, interceding for the people and protecting them from God’s wrath, while pointing out that this was not God’s original design for His relationship with His people.

(0:41:35) – The Role of Jesus as Mediator (9 Minutes)

This chapter explores the profound role of Jesus Christ as the sole mediator between God and humanity, emphasizing the significance of His sacrifice and the tearing of the veil, which grants us direct access to God. We reflect on 1 Timothy 2:5 and John 10:30, illustrating how Jesus’ unity with the Father affirms His unique position as our mediator. We discuss the importance of confession for personal healing, while clarifying that salvation and righteousness come exclusively through Jesus. Additionally, we examine the pitfalls of idolizing religious figures, stressing that our focus and resources should always point to Christ, not to individuals or ourselves. Through Jesus, we have the unparalleled privilege of approaching God directly, ensuring our faith remains steadfast even when human leaders falter.

(0:50:29) – Following Jesus Alone (11 Minutes)

This chapter emphasizes the importance of humility and the dangers of elevating ministers or ministries above God. We explore Paul’s teachings from 1 Corinthians 1:10-13, which caution against divisions within the church and remind us that our ultimate allegiance is to Christ, not to any human leader. The discussion encourages believers to maintain a personal relationship with Jesus, using prayer and scripture as direct means of communication with God. We also reflect on the responsibility of individuals to follow God wholeheartedly and the negative impact of turning ministers into superstars, which can lead to pride and make the church resemble the world. Ultimately, we stress that living according to the kingdom of God requires direct engagement with His word and instructions.

(1:01:52) – The Power of Servanthood (10 Minutes)

This chapter examines the essence of true greatness in the eyes of Jesus, contrasting it with the superficial pursuits of status and recognition. We explore how genuine servanthood, humility, and a deep personal relationship with God are the hallmarks of true followers, rather than seeking prestige and elevated status. Through a heartfelt prayer, we acknowledge the pain and challenges faced by many, emphasizing the importance of trusting in God’s promises and maintaining faith despite life’s chaos. The call to action is clear: to prioritize God’s voice over human intermediaries, embrace our roles as servants, and support one another in our spiritual journeys, always looking to Jesus as the ultimate guide and source of strength.

About your host:

Jaime Luce’ testimony has daunting personal mountains and treacherous financial valleys. She was trapped in day-to-day stress and couldn’t see a way forward. But how she started is not how she finished! And she wants you to know God has a plan for your life too, no matter how tough it seems. Today, Jaime has been married to the love of her life for almost three decades, owns two companies, and has become an author and podcaster. God’s way is always the blessed way! 

Free chapter of Jaime’s new book: You Don’t Need Money, You Just Need God: https://jaimeluce.com/book/

Connect with Jaime: 

Website: https://jaimeluce.com

Facebook:  / jaime.luces.page  

Instagram:  / jaime_luce  

LinkedIn:  / jaime-luce-00395691  

Full Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated and not perfect. We hope it blesses you.

0:00:00 – Jaime Luce
Because we’ve got to recognize it. We’ve got to see that we are turning to man and following heart after man. But are we following heart after God? And not every large ministry is bad. I’m not saying that they’re all bad. I’m saying we have to be watching with right hearts and we have to be serving with right motives ourselves. We are accountable for ourselves, just as those ministers are accountable for their own sins and will pay the consequences for that. We are responsible for ourselves as well.

Welcome to the Jamie Luce Podcast. Thank you for taking some time today with me. I want to be able to talk about a subject that I think is really relevant right now that I’m sure a lot of you are asking questions. If you listen to at all social media and watch what’s happening in the world, I don’t know, I don’t watch very much TV. I’m not sure how much of this has been on regular television. I’m sure it has been much TV. I’m not sure how much of this has been on regular television. I’m sure it has been.

But when we have, over the last few months, seen and over the last year seen, I think it’s four or five prominent ministers, ministries where the minister has been exposed in a way that shows whatever his sin was, or in regard to him, simply saying I have sinned, whether we know what it is or not. There are investigations going on to find out what truly did happen. And, as I was thinking about how, this boy. There’s so many things we need to say about this, but let me start with the first one, saying it’s not bad that all of these things are exposed, know, and we need to be a body of believers who grows and learns from what’s happening. The bad part about this is it causes so much damage to the church itself. So many people get wounded and have warped thoughts about God because they see men fail. And I want to address this today because I believe this is a twofold problem.

If we’re to ask the question, whose fault is this? Whose fault is it? Is it these ministers’ faults? Is it the way that the ministry is organized? Is it the organization’s fault? Is it a matter of church beliefs? How we address scripture, what we believe is acceptable and not acceptable?

How is it culture? How much we push to be a star? You know, the Western culture is unlike most others and we, because of Hollywood now I’m out on the West Coast, so this is where Hollywood is and Hollywood is. If you were to drive the streets down in Hollywood, you would not care to ever drive there again. To be quite honest, it looks run down and dirty. There are a few places that are clean and kept and nice, but the whole surrounding areas are they’re unkept, they’re they’re, it’s it’s messy and it’s dirty and it feels unsafe.

And if we would just be a people who would pull back a little bit and look at things I’ve said this before, but it’s true pull back and take a higher altitude and look at what is really going on and maybe analyze things from a different perspective. It does help you to see more clearly. Sometimes you need to focus in on something, but sometimes, in order to see the whole picture, you have to zoom out. And I’ve been really upset. I don’t know about you. I have gone through the gamut of emotions.

It has been exhausting, trying to spiritually wade through these waters of all of these ministries and ministers, and there’s a lot wrong. These investigations are necessary. They expose a lot of things that we need to know, and there are ministers out there who take serious precautions. They don’t ever travel alone. They make sure that they have people they are accountable to all the time. They make sure that, like scripture, they don’t even put themselves into a position that they know would compromise them. I know of a couple right now off the top of my head, that these people take very seriously making sure that they live accountable lives. And yet there are many who fit the rock star or movie star mentality and they take an entourage with them.

But these are all, yes, people. Nobody is, no one makes them accountable, holds them accountable. There is no system or hierarchy of governmental parameters around these people to cause them to have to truly live, giving an answer and if we as Christians are supposed to be able to live our lives as disciples meaning that you can look at my life and my life I’m supposed to emulate the life of Christ by his grace, and of course that’s a growing process. We all know that that’s a journey. But there should be things about my life that you see, jesus Christ, and I should want to. I should want to know all the parameters myself. And what do I mean by that? What do I mean by parameters? Because I know I’m speaking a little bit here in riddles, and I’m Because there’s so much to talk about, and there’s just so much I need to try to digest and regurgitate to you.

But if we actually are Christians I say this all the time. If you listen to this, you know you hear me say this I can’t beat this thing anymore. You have to love everything about being a Christian, which means being a Christian. I lay my life down. I allow God to tell me what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, and we’ll talk about this today. I’m going to give you some pictures from the Old Testament and the New Testament on how we are supposed to look and deal with leaders in a way that would help us in our confused culture right now, and I want to give us a surprising answer to the question on whose fault this is.

It’s obvious that the minister themselves. They’re culpable. They are um well, their, their actions and whatever things they do, any sin they commit, even things that they are not doing, they are responsible for those themselves. I am not responsible for your actions. You are not responsible for mine. It’s the reason why, as Christians, the majority of Christians do not support policies in our government that say that I have to pay the debt of somebody else, a debt that I did not incur a debt that I did not earn. And yet I am penalized and I am punished, and the one who incurs the debt no longer is responsible for the debt. I, as an onlooker, as a stranger, am now responsible for that debt. That’s not.

We know that before Christ we were dead in our trespasses and sin, responsible for our own lives and our own choices. Jesus, and Jesus alone, is the only one who can truly come in and say I’m going to pay a debt I do not owe in any way, shape or form and set you free from that debt and you are not responsible for that debt anymore. In order to have that, I have to repent of my sin and I have to be able to then take my life and lay it down for the cause of Christ. Now many stop short. They say I love. I’ll say I love Jesus, I want to be a Christian, I want to have my sins forgiven and I want to go to heaven someday. But they don’t lay their life down. Folks, that’s part of the Christian life. My life now is not my own. It’s been bought with a price. Jesus’ blood paid for my life. I uh, in Paul’s words, I now have a reasonable service of laying this flesh down as a sacrifice. That’s my reasonable worship, my reasonable service. And so, of course, if we look at this situation and we understand that each person is responsible to lay their own life down they’re responsible for their decisions it’s obvious that these ministers are culpable for their own actions. However, I want to point out to us and my hope is that you will hear me, because what I’m going to say is going to probably offend you, and I’m not wanting to offend you I’m wanting to shed light on a very dark subject and if we aren’t willing to really look at this, it won’t get better, and I want it to get better. The church is too precious. Jesus died for the church. We are each a part of the body. It matters, it really matters, what’s going on in our churches all across this world, on in our churches all across this world. It matters what happens in the pulpit.

I remember many, many years ago being in a first of the year prayer and there were a few older gentlemen who were bold in their prayers. They would walk down the altars back and forth and with boldness they would proclaim their heart for God, their desire for God to touch the church, god’s desire to answer their prayers. But they were just bold, they didn’t care who heard them. They were there for a week of prayer while we were fasting all together as a church. While we were fasting all together as a church, and I’m sorry to say this, I was disturbed, not at the men who were praying, of course, but I sat in the pew and I was really disturbed. I was, and I was asking the Lord why do I feel this? What is this that I feel? And at the time when the Lord answered me, it broke my heart and I have never forgotten it.

It comes to my mind often when I think about the church and what the Lord showed me in that prayer time. He brought to my mind the passage of scripture where the prophet is saying that the priests are not weeping between the porch and the altar, between the porch and the altar, and it made me realize that the people who were boldly praying and pacing in the altars that week were lay people. Praise God for them. I hope that I am the same kind of person, but there were no ministers called to the office, pacing and calling out to God like that on behalf of the church, with boldness, with loudness, with fervor. It wasn’t happening. And I knew that.

What I was troubled at was the fact that the Holy Spirit was troubled. It wasn’t just me. I didn’t just come. I came to church to pray. That wasn’t what was on my mind on what’s wrong here, what’s wrong with this picture? And the Holy Spirit revealed that to me while I was sitting there. Spirit revealed that to me while I was sitting there and I cried, I just wept. I said, lord, I’ll weep if you want me to weep, but I hear what you’re saying. Where are the ministers? Where are the ones leading the charge, who are weeping between the porch and the altar?

What we have now, folks, what we see now, are people who want to be famous. They pick the job of a pastor. They collected themselves those who they want to serve underneath them, who will support them in whatever they do. There is no system of accountability set up in that. There is no checks and balances there, and I want to show you in scripture where this has been since the beginning and what our tendency as people is, because here’s the offending shocker.

I think part of where the fault lies is in us, the people, not in their sin. It’s not our fault that they’ve sinned, but we encourage those that we think have charisma, those that we think have great oratory skills, those who know how to preach and make us get goosebumps, you know, those who have giftings, those who can sing. I mean, we’ve taken I believe it was a I won’t try to say exactly who it was because I won’t remember this correctly but there was a Christian singing band, a Christian rock band of some sort, and one of the singers came out and kind of wrote an open letter exposing the fact that we have taken what is supposed to be a platform of worship in church, what is supposed to be a platform of worship in church, and instead of it being worship to God, we have taken these people who have a gifting in song and we have elevated them and we allow them to speak theologically to us through music and we follow their examples as if they’re pastors. And this gets convoluted and I’m not going to try to untangle every wire, because this gets into how you build church and if you call people pastors or don’t call them pastors and what that looks like, and that’s not what this is about today and it’s not my job to tell you that we should follow a biblical example. That’s all I would say about that. But what I would say is that this because we are so quick to want to raise people up to stardom, we the people, not just the person who wants to be a star.

In fact, I read this week no joke, read an article this week by actor Kevin Bacon that since he was a child, he always wanted to be famous. He wanted to be recognized. He wanted to be famous, he wanted to be known. He wanted the perks of all of that. And not too long ago he had a makeup artist, because he says he’s too recognizable to do this with just putting on a hat and sunglasses and get away with it. He wanted to go out into the local community where he lives and be unrecognizable as him and see what life feels like as a regular person who’s not famous. And he had a special makeup person make him a prosthesis to put on and wear so that he was definitely not looking like himself, and where, so that he was definitely not looking like himself. And he went down in Beverly Hills there’s a shopping area called the Grove and we had, surprisingly, just visited there recently, so I knew exactly where this was and walked around and he said he hated what he felt that day. He hated the experience. He hated not being recognized. He hated not being known. He hated not getting the perks. He didn’t like that he wasn’t recognized by people. He didn’t like that people would brush by him and bump into him and didn’t care who he was. He didn’t like not being famous. And he was honest about it and wrote about it.

And this is the culture we live in, folks. We have ministers who want to be famous. They want, in the name of having a worldwide ministry of spreading the gospel, what they really want is fame. Our culture pushes it. It pushes it. We so quickly want to take somebody. That’s why we have the shows on TV that we do. American Idol is about finding somebody and immediately making them a star. Immediately. Find the one who’s got the talent and immediately make them something famous. What’s the other one where the judges either X you or you’re going to Hollywood. Anyway, america’s Got Talent. We do the same thing with that. We want to find who the stars are so that we can praise and ooh and ah these stars. And those who make money off the backs of those stars want those stars found too, because that’s where their money’s located. That’s what they want. They want the power. So either you want fame or you want power, or you want both.

And I want to take us in scripture. That’s a long, long intro, but I want to take us in scripture. I’m going to give us a handful of these today, but I want to take us in scripture. I’m going to give us a handful of these today, but I want you to see where this comes from and how this goes against the character of God and what God wants, god’s wishes. He’s not wanting us. It’s not that God doesn’t want his word to get out or that he doesn’t want to use us for his kingdom. His heart isn’t to stop us from spreading the gospel, but there are warnings all through scripture and there is a way of God that you know.

I heard this morning. I was listening to a podcast and I heard something beautiful. Someone was. His name is Tim Ross. Beautiful, someone was his name is Tim Ross.

He was explaining how God had given to him a revelation one day of Jesus, that how did the gospel of Jesus Christ, built with these 12 disciples, become what it is today, and in a culture and in a time when everything we want to do is fast, so fast, so hurried, so quick. How did this happen? And what he felt the Lord showed him was that, just like how, if you take grapes and immediately crush them, all you get is juice. Take grapes and immediately crush them, all you get is juice. All you get is a really sugary juice. It’s just sugary and too much sugar can make you sick, he said. But if you let that same grape ferment, it becomes very powerful.

And what we have in Jesus from the beginning, before he was actually born, the building up of Jesus coming onto the scene, and the amount of time thousands of years that go by before Jesus comes on the scene, and then now the gospel has spread all over the world from his coming, that it is like a fermentation process. And we tend to look at our life and look at our ministries and look at these things and we want to hurry up and just crush the grape and be famous. And we’re wanting famous. We want to be famous, crush the grape and be famous, and what we’re doing is we’re putting ministries and ministers before their time and, instead of being potent and powerful, they are sugary and sweet to the taste and we so quickly want to take that in, but it doesn’t produce in us the power that it was meant to produce. To the way that we enable ministers to fly to their stardom is not only dangerous to them, it’s then dangerous to us, the church.

There was a minister it’s gosh. This has been probably in the last 15 years I’m not exactly sure the dates and I remember watching this young man rise to stardom, so to speak, in the Christian television world and he was becoming very famous very quickly and he was very gifted when he preached. He had very strong gifting to preach. And then we find out that he died suddenly. And then, when we found out how he died, he died suddenly. And then, when we found out how he died, he had died of a drug overdose and had been with prostitutes while in another country. And it was like shocking, just shocking, and he wasn’t ready. He wasn’t ready and neither was the message, because all those people who so quickly followed him are confused and they question God based off of man’s choices and folks. God is so far above man. It’s just wrong. It’s just wrong to hold God accountable for the actions that men do. And yet, if we’re so used to a diet of sugar. Only, we don’t understand what it means to be able to walk through the flames and not get burned, to be able to handle faith in a way that is mature.

And so I want you, if you can, I want you to go with me to Exodus, chapter 20, and I’m going to look at verses 18 and 19. And this is all leading up to. In chapter 19, god tells Moses. In fact, I’ll read it to you real quickly. This is Exodus 19 verse.

Let’s start in verse 10, the Lord said to Moses go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments and be ready for the third day. For on the third day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people, and you shall set limits for the people all around. Okay, right there, what a powerful scripture. You shall set limits for all the people. Okay, I just hold on to that. You shall set limits for the people all around, saying take care not to go up into the mountain or touch the edge of it. He’s talking about going up the mountain to hear from God, to speak to God, to see God, to hear from God. Okay, take care not to go up into the mountain to touch or touch the edge of it. Whoever touches the mountain shall be put to death. No hand shall touch him, but he shall be stoned or shot. Whether beast or man, he shall not live. When the trumpet sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain. So he’s saying you don’t do anything until you hear the trumpet blast, meaning when you hear my call and not before, then do you come up this mountain. Okay, not not one moment before or you’re dead. You come up when I call you up. That’s a whole message in itself too for ministers. But so Moses went down from the mountain to the people and consecrated the people and they washed their garments. And he said to the people be ready for the third day, do not go near a woman.

On the morning of the third day there were thunders and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud trumpet blast, so that all the people in the camp trembled. Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain. Now, mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the Lord had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like smoke of a kiln and the whole mountain trembled greatly. And as the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, moses spoke and God answered him in thunder.

The Lord came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain, and the Lord called Moses to the top of to the Lord, consecrate themselves, lest the Lord break out against them. So this is to the people, to the priests and for Moses to know. Okay, and Moses said to the Lord, the people cannot come up Mount Sinai, for you yourself warned us, saying set limits around the mountain and consecrate it. Set limits on the mountain, around the mountain. And the Lord said to him go down and come up, bringing Aaron with you. Do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, lest he break out against them. So Moses went down to the people and told them and God, this is chapter 20, and God spoke all these words saying I am the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. And the next several verses are the 10 commandments. This is what God gave Moses when he was up on Mount Sinai.

Now I want to take you skip over with me to. This is now chapter 20, and I want us to look at verses 18 and 19. And it says now, when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, afraid and trembled and they stood far off. Okay, now I want you to look at those two words. They were afraid and trembled. There’s another scripture. I’ve given this to you many times. I want you to look at those two words. They were afraid and trembled. There’s another scripture. I’ve given this to you many times. It says that we are to work out our own salvation with what Fear and trembling. And this is what they felt when they approached the mountain. They were afraid and trembled and they stood far off. Okay, they were following God’s commands Do not come near. So that I don’t have to come out against you Now.

Earlier, we see that God had told them he wanted to consecrate them and bring them so that he could talk directly to them. It wasn’t their jobs to all come up the mountain, but God was going to speak to them directly, directly. Okay, god had a word for his people. He wanted relationship with them. He’s given them the parameters on what he expects from them and how to approach him from them and how to approach him. And he now wants to talk to them to them, not to Moses. He’s already talked to Moses. He’s been talking to Moses.

He wants to talk to the people. God wants to talk to you. Let’s make this personal. God wants to talk to you with the understanding that he’s almighty God and that I come to him in fear and trembling, knowing that he didn’t have to save me, but he did that. He did rescue me from a house of bondage, that he is my Lord and savior. I am to come to him, wanting to talk to him and him to talk to me, but let’s see what happens.

Verse 19. And the people said to Moses you speak to us and we will listen, but do not let God speak to us lest we die. You speak to God, you tell him you. You let him tell you what he wants us to know and we’ll just listen to you. Moses, you go up the mountain, you hear the word. You come down, you tell us the word. We don’t want to hear from God. We don’t want to hear from him ourselves. We want to hear from him. Through you, we have done this to our pastors and to ministers who have great giftings, who might be called to shepherd us, to correct us.

What did a shepherd have? A rod and a staff. One was to deal with the sheep and one was to deal with the wolves. Right, give protection but also help the sheep. And sometimes he had to use that little crook on the end of his staff to pull the sheep. It might actually break their leg. He might actually have to break their leg to pull them to safety and then carry them on his shoulders. But it was done to protect them. They understood, they followed his voice, even if that meant that they were afraid. They knew where to go. They had his voice to follow.

But when we choose to say I’d rather listen to a man, we’re saying two things. We’re saying one I don’t want to be responsible to hear God myself. I don’t want to have to do the work. I don’t want to be responsible to hear God myself. I don’t want to have to do the work. I don’t want to have to do the study. I don’t want to have to be in my Bible. I don’t want to have to be in prayer myself. I just want to go and have somebody do all that work for me and tell me what God says.

Now you tell me who had the closer, more intimate relationship with God. Who was the one? Who was the one who had to always intercede? Moses had to intercede on behalf of the people constantly, not just in getting a word from God, but in protecting them from God because they were constantly disobeying. God was going to destroy them many times, but Moses would come and say don’t, if you’re going to destroy them, destroy me too. He totally was a mediator between God and man. He took the role, but that was not the role he was designed to take. God used him to be a deliverer, to pull them out, but God’s design was that God would speak to his people and his people would hear him directly and follow him, negating a need for a king. That’s why later, they wanted a king. They wanted to look like everybody else. Give us somebody else that we can praise and look up to.

Okay, let’s look at what the commandments do say. The commandments say in verse. Let’s go back to Exodus 20 and look at verse hold on one sec. Sorry, verse three and four. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.

For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. So God is equating that if you serve other gods, whatever, that be people, carved images, godly people, that you give your life to serve that person, that be people, carved images, godly people, that you give your life to serve that person, that ministry. But if you serve that God in that ministry above serving God, if they take the forefront for you, if you go to them for prayer, you go to them for answers, you go to them instead of going to God. You’ve now placed them in a position above God and God considers that you hate God. He equates that as a hatred. He equates that lordship switch as a contestable thing against God. He’s letting you know how he feels about it. He doesn’t pull any punches about it. He says I’m a jealous God and this is what this means to me. It’s dangerous to do this because I am God.

People don’t like to hear that. They like to think God that’s kind of a hard thing to say. He’s God. He created everything, everything far more powerful than you and I could ever imagine. Think in your mind right now the most powerful person on the earth that you know. That is nothing. God could just stop breath, just like that. That power is a false power. It is a far lesser, far degraded, far inferior power. If you’re going to fear anything, we’ve got to fear God.

But in understanding how God looks at this and seeing the character of God, he’s saying I have to be first. That’s why in the New Testament he says seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. I seek him, I seek what’s right in his eyes. I seek him first. And we can get that mixed up as Christians and think well, I am, I’m serving the church and I serve my pastor and I take care and I give to this ministry and that ministry. That’s wonderful, that’s good, those things are good, but they cannot take the forefront and replace the relationship that we have with God ourselves.

We put these people on pedestals and then we are so affected by their fall off of them. They are not God, they are men. Do we hold them to high standard? Absolutely. Scripture tells us that if they are called to these positions, they are held to a higher scrutiny before God and they have to live to that level. God doesn’t lower the bar because of the culture we live in. God doesn’t lower the standards because people aren’t living up to the standards. He doesn’t lower them because it will make it easier on us. The standards are the standards.

When he gave the children of Israel the parameters around the mountain, he said this is life or death. You do not cross these boundaries. You do not get to decide where you get to go and when you get to go. You wait for the trumpet to come, you wait for my call and then, when you get my call, you do it the way I tell you to do it. You don’t cross those boundaries. It’s life and death. It wasn’t just life and death to the people, it was life and death to animal. The people, it was life and death to animal.

This is serious, folks, and and we have a responsibility. If we admire a, a, a phenomenal preacher, and we admire what they do and we hold them in high esteem and we give honor where honors do, that’s fine. Just make sure that you are not choosing to live your Christian life serving through that individual because that person is not equipped, that person is not God, that person cannot possibly answer your prayers when you pray. I hope you’re hearing what I’m saying. I’m not saying this angry at us. I’m saying this is a correction. That’s life or death, and if I saw a child I have six grandkids and if I saw any one of them run into the street, I’d be the first to jump in the way and protect them, pull them out of the way and take the hit myself if necessary. I would do it right now, in a heartbeat, without thinking twice about it. But, folks, that’s what God did for us. That’s what he did. Man didn’t do that for us. Man didn’t die for us, in fact. Let’s read that I want us to go to.

Hi, my name is Jamie Luce. I wanted to share with you some information about a brand new book entitled you Don’t Need Money, you Just Need God. It’s a playbook for miraculous provision and I want to share it with you because it solves the problem we are all facing right now. The economy is going crazy, gas prices are soaring, there’s wars and rumors of wars. We’ve got everything hitting us all at once, with interest rates rising. You need to know what to do, and so many times we think we need the money, but you don’t need money. I’m telling you, the answer is you need God, and that’s exactly what we want to teach you through this book. We’ll give you practical ways to know what to do and how to do it, so that you get answers. Now you can find my book on Amazon. You can also go to jamielucecom. You can also find this book at youdontneedmoneyyoujustneedgodcom. This book is available today. Let’s see.

Well, first let’s go to 1 Timothy 2, verse 5. 1 Timothy 2, verse 5. For there is one God and there is one mediator between God and men. One, one mediator between God and man, christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. Jesus and Jesus alone is our mediator. Jesus alone is our mediator. Folks, when he was crucified on that cross, when he died, the veil that separated the holy of holies from everybody else from the inner court, the outer court, the veil was ripped from top to bottom, showing total access. That’s why we can come boldly to the throne room of grace, we can obtain mercy and come boldly to the one who paid the price. We go directly to Jesus.

Now that doesn’t mean that I’m not. You know, there are many factions of Christendom and some of those have the establishment of going to confession and, to be honest, confession is good for the soul. Confession helps a person heal. We’re supposed to confess our sins one to another that we might be healed. So confession in and of itself is not bad. But I’m not gaining salvation and God’s righteousness because I’ve confessed my sin to another person. The mediator is Jesus Christ, so I go to him and I ask him to wash and cleanse me and make me right, make my relationship right with God, that I am now in right standing, I now have a righteousness that belongs to Christ Jesus, that God sees me through Jesus’s righteousness, and so I have to understand that it’s not by going and confessing something to a person that saves me, that might help me, that might help my life, that might help me remove stain and guilt feelings, and that I know that I am forgiven and I can be healed, but it doesn’t save me, and I have to understand that Jesus is the only mediator.

I can’t put a person in his place. We can’t continue to prop these ministers up as if they’re Jesus, as if they’re a God. They’re men and those jobs, the job of those men, is not to take our attention and point our attention to them and cause us to want to covet what they have and to be like they are, with the fame and the recognition that they have. Their job is that we would see Christ and not them. That’s the whole reason why we are given so many scriptures that talk about us being humble, that we lower ourselves so that we can be lifted up Now, not lifted up in a sense of pride and not lifted up in necessarily even a place of prominence, but our spirits are no longer down. He has lifted us up into his righteousness, are no longer down. He has lifted us up into his righteousness.

I want us to look at John, chapter 10, verse 30. John, chapter 10, verse 30. I’m looking it up with you John 10, verse 30. John 10, verse 30. Actually, let’s start at verse 29. My Father, who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

Now, this is talking about all those that have been given to Jesus, and he knows that he doesn’t have to worry about losing any that are his. And yet what is Jesus trying to convey that he keeps. In fact, he had to tell the disciples how long do I have to be with you? When will you recognize who I am? How is this? How do you not know by now? And he says how long do I have to be with you? Verse 30 says I and the Father are one, are one.

This is what makes Jesus the perfect mediator. We are and have direct access to Father God because of Jesus Christ, because of him. He’s our access point. There’s no veil anymore. We now have Jesus, that ability to go right to the Father, to go right to the source, to our creator, and to ask whatever that we would need to ask. He says we can pray and touch anything and ask anything in Jesus’ name. We have the ability, because of our mediator, to have access to the father, to hear directly from the father’s heart. Jesus is saying if you hear me you’ve heard him. If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen him. I don’t do anything on my own that I don’t see him doing. I don’t say anything that I don’t hear him saying. We are one. I and the father are one are one. I and the Father are one. There is no human mediator. There is no one who should take the place of Jesus. Our attention shouldn’t be given to others that we give to Jesus. Our resources and our giftings and our talents should be given so that we draw attention to Jesus, not to man and not to ourselves.

If I sit and do these podcasts and I’m doing them because I want to be recognized, or I want someone to say hey, aren’t you Jamie Luce and don’t you have a podcast Then shame on me, shame on me. I don’t have a desire for that. I prefer to be behind this camera. I don’t know who you are. I don’t want recognition. I want you to see the God who gave us the answer. I want you to see the one who has made a way for you so that when people do what people do, when people fall or when they stumble on their road, even if they’re stumbling forward, they stumble If they aren’t perfect in their walk. That doesn’t have to affect my faith in the God, who is perfect, who is always good, who always knows what is necessary in every moment of my life. He knows how to speak life to me. He knows how to rescue me from whatever pit I might find myself in. He knows how to create for me something out of nothing. That’s the God that we serve, and no man comes close to comparing to his greatness. Is it awful that these men have fallen? Yes, is it terrible that they have mishandled the body of Christ? Yes, are there consequences? But you and I have the ability to not help that process of them falling to such a degree. We don’t have to put them so high on such crazy pedestals.

Some of the most well-known preachers in history are some of the most humble men who wanted no attention at all. They wanted no recognition for themselves. They understood that that would be detrimental to them. They wanted nothing more than to show who God was, not only what he did in their life, who God was, not only what he did in their life, but how necessary it is to follow after him. Not a man. We follow after God, we can. Even Paul. He said okay, if you’re going to follow me. That’s great, but you follow me as I follow Christ. This isn’t Paul. You’re not following Paul, you’re following Jesus Christ.

I want us to look at 1 Corinthians. We’re almost done 1 Corinthians and we’ll go to chapter 1. And I’m going to read you verses 10 through 13. 1 Corinthians, 1, 10 through 13. I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment, for it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says now listen to this I follow Paul, or I follow Apollos, or I follow Cephas or I follow Christ. And this is what Paul says to that Is Christ divided?

Was Paul crucified for you? If we are in the habit of, as a church body as a whole, proclaiming with all of our might I follow this particular minister, or I follow this particular ministry, or I only follow this particular denomination, or I follow, and we tear down and divide the others and we give power to the person that we follow, or we give power to the organization that we follow, folks. Is Christ divided? Did any of those people or any of those organizations die for you? No, it was Jesus Christ.

Jesus alone, in Christ alone, folks, is how we have to live our lives. We follow him. Now he may tell us and lead us to a particular body of believers that we are a part of and become community with. That we minister to one another’s needs and we act as a body of Christ and we have a shepherd who is leading that flock. Praise God for that. Praise God for that.

But there needs to be an understanding that that man, that leader, is not Jesus and that leader is not perfect and that leader can’t answer my prayers. Now I may go and say, please pray with me about this, and we want them to agree in prayer with us. Of course we do, but that’s not the person who answers my prayers and it doesn’t matter how much faith that person has. That’s not my mediator. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Where is my faith? This is my encouragement for you today.

Make sure that you understand that it is a blessing and not a weight that you have access directly to God himself. What do I mean by that? That you do not think of prayer and reading your word as a burden, as something that you don’t want to have to do. Folks, he laid his life down for you. This is our way of connecting to the one who has paid our price, paid our ransom, healed us, who has given us an eternity that is secure in him. I read you the verse that says that he doesn’t lose any of them. He wouldn’t have to worry about being lost. We are safe in his hands. Let’s go to because this whole understanding of God.

How do I want to say this? I want to encourage us, because I’m going back to the question whose fault is it? And I want us to see that when we elevate man and we elevate these ministries to the point that they are a mediator for us, because we’ve got to recognize it We’ve got to see that we are turning to man and following heart after man. But are we following heart after God? And not every large ministry is bad. I’m not saying that they’re all bad. I’m saying we have to be watching with right hearts and we have to be serving with right motives ourselves. We are accountable for ourselves, just as those ministers are accountable for their own sins and will pay the consequences for that. We are responsible for ourselves as well. And when we lift up these ministers like superstars, we are doing according to what Paul was teaching. There we are breeding. We, the people, are breeding unhealthy character in ministers that we follow. We are helping to set up pride where pride does not belong. We are helping to make the godly look like the world, that the church looks the same as the world.

Well, if it’s the same, why would they need us? Why would they need Jesus? Why would they need salvation? If all they do is the same and all that? They look the same, talk the same, act the same? What’s the difference, folks? What’s the difference? We live according to the kingdom of God. It is a very different way to live. We follow the instructions of our king. We make sure that we live in the parameters and the safeguards that he has set for us. We talk to him directly, we hear from him directly. That’s what the word of God is. We have direct access to his heart, to his mind, to his way to understand creation, to know how to navigate life, by doing so, through the way that we have relationship with him.

If I spend my time studying another minister. I can learn how to do things the way that minister does them. I can maybe learn how to preach like they preach. I might learn how to walk like they walk. I might learn how to navigate situations the way they navigate them, navigate situations the way they navigate them. But unless I’m in the word myself, I will never know how that internal relationship is going with that person and God. I will never know. I won’t know what they’ve heard unless that’s what they’re modeling and that’s what you’re copying. We have to be those who are diligent to follow Jesus Christ and him alone. I’m grateful for the large ministries that are having a large impact.

I hope that this does not sound like I’m against them. I’m not. We have to be so careful not to hurt them and we don’t want them to harm us, and that’s a relationship that means it takes what they do and what we do both. We’re both responsible for this relationship and I don’t want to see us hurt anymore. I don’t want to see the people of God hurt anymore. I don’t want to see the church wounded. I don’t want to see people going into a church and finding out that all their old wounds have now been reopened by being into a service and hearing how this minister that they trusted and followed has now fallen prey to all the same stuff that harmed and hurt them. But we have some responsibility. I hope that’s not offensive to you, but we have some responsibility. I hope that’s not offensive to you, but we have some responsibility.

I’m going to close with one last verse. Jesus is speaking, and this is in Matthew 23. We need to follow Jesus, matthew 23. And I’m going to read verses 1 through 11. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples the scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do, for they preach but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others, for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces, and being called rabbi by others. Sounds a lot like the story of Kevin Bacon, doesn’t it? But you are not called rabbi. Oh sorry, but you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one father who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Jesus is letting us know only those who are Pharisees. They’re a Pharisee at heart If all they want is all the glitz and the glamour and the prestige of being known, being given elevated status, and yet that doesn’t help the people one bit. They aren’t helping the people one bit. That’s what that says. He says you want to know who the greatest is. It goes back to the argument that Jesus had to convince these brothers to understand who’s the greatest. The greatest is the one who bends down and actually does the work that Jesus would do so that Jesus is seen, and not the person.

If you go into a home that has servants who work for the person that they are there for, you’re not there to see the servants. You’re not there to visit with the servants Though the servants may be very active all around you doing things for you and you’re there to see the person that you came to see, the one who pays these servants. And yet that’s how the recognition goes to the Father. We’re his servants and we should be great at it. We should be great at being servants. And by being great servants, then people are free to visit and see the true master of the house, the one they came to see, the one who owns it all, the one who can answer the questions, the one who can provide for the needs.

I know this is a hard thing. This is a hurtful thing. What has happened is damaging. It’s wrong. But, folks, we can grow from this. We can grow from what we’ve seen and what we’ve experienced and we can make decisions going forward that don’t repeat old bad behavior. And we can take responsibility where we are culpable, in whatever it is that we see happening around us, in our actions, how we look up to people in other ministries and ministers and how we deal ourselves with wanting a mediator instead of going to God himself. This is a self-check time. It’s our responsibility.

One day, each one of us will stand before the Lord and answer for ourselves. That’s why they come in fear and trembling. That fear and trembling that’s necessary. That’s necessary. Without it, I won’t be ready. Without it, I won’t have relationship. Without it, I’ll stay away from the mountain completely, completely.

If we want to see God do miraculous things, wonderful things, in our churches and across this world, no matter the nation, the best thing we can do is be the greatest of servants we can be. Have a real relationship, get our orders from the Lord himself. Make sure that we care about what he cares about. Make sure that we ourselves are praying, that we ourselves are reading his word, learning who he is. Caring for, the body. Caring for the ministers? Yes, absolutely we need them, but we need to keep them under the covering of Jesus Christ, not exalt them above him or instead of him. Can I pray for you today? I know this seems like an odd place to just stop and pray, but I just want to pray for you, for the church and for our service to him. He knows what we need. He’s the answer to our prayers. Jesus has already paid the price. We just have to hear our instructions going forward. So let me pray.

Heavenly Father, we are so grateful that you saw to it that, before we ever even knew we needed a Savior, you had provided a Savior. You had provided a savior. You’re so far ahead of us. There are some of us who have received words of encouragement and prophetic words over our life and we haven’t seen them come to pass, and the temptation is for us to not believe you anymore. The temptation is to believe the chaos around us and to believe the place we see ourselves now, instead of understanding. You are so great that you are so far in front of us that we don’t have to fear where we’re at right now and that what you said will come to pass, and it will come to pass not when it’s grape juice, but when it’s powerful. So for those in a waiting season right now, who are troubled by the season they’re in and by the chaos that they see around them and the voices that they trusted once have come crashing down, they can still trust your voice. You have not lied to them. You are not a liar and you will perform what you have promised.

Father, I thank you that you are all powerful, that you have fermented. Everything that we need is in the power of who you are. You’ve made yourself accessible to us, not through men who fail, but through your son, who you are one with. Father, I’m even thinking right now of Jesus’s prayer to you. Father, make them one, as you and I are one. Father, let there be no divisions among us. Remove these ridiculous hierarchies of stardom in your body. Father, we are brothers and sisters together with you. You are our head. You are the head. We look to you, the author and the finisher of our faith.

Father, I pray for those who have been wounded and hurt by everything that has been going on around us in this world, in the church and in the world, and they’re wounded and they’re hurting. Father, you are the answer. Another man is not the answer. Another replacement minister isn’t the answer. You not the answer. Another replacement minister isn’t the answer. You are the answer.

So I’m asking, lord, that you would speak to the hearts of those who are hurting and broken, for that is why you came. You said you came to bind up the brokenhearted. I ask that you would give them a fresh word in their ears, in their hearing, to know what it is that you have to say to them and for them, rekindle in those, father, whose lights are so dim that the tragedy of all that has happened has caused their faith to wane, because they were looking to men as the standard. Fan the flame again, o God, reminding them that you and you alone are the standard and that all that we have need of is found in you. You are our rabbi, you are our teacher, our instructor. You are our rabbi. You are our teacher, our instructor. You are the one who will show us where we need to go and what we need to do. Help us, oh God, to remember the parameters of protection that you have set around us, that our life and death. They are our protection. Cause us to remember them and walk according to them, lord, that we not turn to the left or to the right, but that we stay focused on you.

I ask for your healing. Touch on physical bodies, on their spiritual minds, on their soulish man where they are wounded, and in their physical bodies where there might be sickness or decay from whatever cause, whether that be actual disease or whether that be from inside. Turmoil and past hurts, whatever and from wherever. I am asking you, father, god, according to your word, your blood was shed and your back was beaten. For our healing. Your back was beaten for our healing. I ask that today, your people would hear your voice and know your comfort, your healing, your peace, and we ask all of these things in Jesus’ name, amen.

Well, thank you for being with me today. I’d love to hear from you. I have recently been receiving some prayer requests and I appreciate that. Go ahead and send those in to my email. That’s mail at jamielucecom. Or you can go to my webpage and find that information there as well. That’s jamielucecom. I would love to be able to be in prayer with you to cover you. I am praying for you. Know that and be encouraged. God is not damaged. Men get damaged, yes, but our God is still God and he’s still able to do exceedingly and abundantly. Above all that you could ask or think it was great to be with you today, we’ll see you next time. Bye-bye.